Malcolm Posted May 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Hi all, The ST400i is the only cordless staple gun that will fire a 40 x 4mm barbed staple. I believe the other cordless staple gun as discussed will fire a 40mm long staple, but it's only a 3.15mm wire therfore will not comply with the majority of grants/contractors requirments. Having tried the cordless tool myself and and following the feedback from a few contractors we believe it saves even more time than the ST400 and compressor system. Unless feedback from the market suggests otherwise we will continue to supply 40 x 4mm Barbed Staples for the following Sytems: ST400i Cordless Gun ST400 Pneumatic Gun Good old Hammer I'll see if we can create a 'fence staple calculator' to enable you to compare the three methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post Driver Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 I've worked out that if I put posts in every 2 metres, and put 6 staples in each post, @6p, each that's 36p per post or 18p per metre, that's a big increase to add on, Just wondering can anyone ( maybe the tornado guys) give me an approximate cost of a barbed staple as it comes in a bucket just, now Or an idea if how many staples to a kilo there is. I think there is approximately 125 40x4 staples to the kilo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 All I know is that I was the biggest sceptic about the pneumatic staple gun. I saw it at the shows and just couldn't see it was better. Having been stapling for over 25 years I considered myself pretty fast at it. Then on one particularly big job for some reason I ended up stapling most of it and I thought ****** it I'm going to try one. Hilary sent one down and said " no likey no buyey ". Well I tried it in the yard and then went out to use it on the fence. I can honestly say I was very impressed. Yes the staples are more money and yes there is running costs involved with the compressor. But the time it saves is where the savings are. Yesterday 480m in 38 minutes with seven staples to a stake/post at 3.5m centres. That is with the compressor in the Atv and someone driving it and me stapling. I expect the more you use it the quicker you get. But I am very pleased with the performance. The cordless gun does seem expensive but as with any tool you get what you pay for and the extra cost of the gas is probably going to even itself out if you don't need to fuel and service compressor and have someone in an Atv along side. Also will be easier to transport. Can see good/bad points to both systems all I know is it's better than a hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontrowfencing Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 I am with mr t, I never thought much to the stockade, but once I tried one, I was very impressed. Time saved outweighs cost. You could say I would maybe be of the opinion now, that I was about the stockade a year and a half ago, can't see how it can be worth it, but maybe if I try it I would be turned, however I am not sure there is room in my shed for both. Now we have the stockade and compressor we will probably stick to it, but I am sure there are times where I would put the gas gun in, when I wouldn't bother loading the compressor. Will I be buying one? If I need to invest money to save tax then for sure. I aim for 20 mins max for a hundred metres with hammer and staples at 3.5 mtr and 6 staples per post. With the stockade on my own I can do 600 metres in an hour quite easily. I think it's great that all these new products are coming out, the more we as users invest in them, the more the companies will put into developing new products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDRContracting Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 ...and the less we wear our bodies out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevew Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 It's a Staple gun not the end of the world !! You either buy one and put yourself ahead of those that don't or stay in the dark ages No one would go back to knocking posts in with a maul all day and transporting them with a horse and cart Labour is your most expensive cost wether it be financial or in time. it dose not matter if it's your own time or that of you staff, ( But there will always be a place for the good OLD FASHIONED hammer ) probably in a museum along with RSI repetitive strain injuries lol ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Very convincing reasoning chaps. It shows you can be too tight for your own good, when it comes to not spending. Phenomenal rates there Mr T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooresft Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 I don't think it's that much, infact cheaper than a compressor plus gun. My main concern would be reliability in the wet, paslode nail guns can be little fecks in the damp. And whether the fuel cells supplied are enough for the 1000 staples? Also the staples are a big hike in price, chances of aftermarket ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
premnayloon Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Steve, such as I respect your opinion everyone clientele is different I'm of the opinion that atm my customers would baulk at me passing on full cost, I'd love to get one at some point, but for the moment the claw stays in the bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Steve, such as I respect your opinion everyone clientele is different I'm of the opinion that atm my customers would baulk at me passing on full cost, I'd love to get one at some point, but for the moment the claw stays in the bag But either you lose time which your not charging for or you can be charging a similar price, going home earlier and spending a little more on materials. Just to throw a wild assumption in, if you go home an hour earlier every day your fencing and you do a hundred metres a day. It's less than £15 in staples and you want to be earning at least £15 an hour self employed, it's no loss in income. I used to itemise everything in the invoice, now I just charge by a rate per hour or metre, giving the customer more like information isn't always a good thing. Because they over analyse it and put costs into their perspective, farmers don't think of their labour as an hourly cost, they already have the tractor, the diesel is paid for by corn or livestock sales etc. Yet they will pay a mechanic at extortionate rates by the hour ( by our standards)to do things they are clueless about. Mechanics rarely give concise lessons on how to fix machinery, they turn up, use their well practised techniques and knowledge, using special tools impress and leave. We. Should do the same, anybody can bang a post in. But can they make it look good and effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevew Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Premnayloon I take on board what you say, but if it costs £900.00 in the first year you get 25% tax relief that reduces it to £675. If it saves you half an hour each day 5 days a week 52 weeks a year that's 130 hours a year, if you put your time in at £20 an hour, that £675 investment has made you a saving of £2600 in time alone. If you wished you could pass that onto your clientele I don't think they would baulk at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Yes thank you Goaty. I'm sure if I was younger and fitter I could do 500m in 30 mins. The advantage we found with the Atv along side was that when there is any bumps or dips ( which we get s lot of down here ) and you can't lift the netting by yourself the driver jumps off and holds it up for you. I think on a decent run on flat fields it doable. I wouldn't say I was ultra competitive but I like to up the output when u can by what ever means as long as quality isn't compromised. Everyone has there own way of fencing but at the end of the day it's all got to be stapled up. I would say to all the doubters of the stockade try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
premnayloon Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 If there was the opportunity to trial the thing then that would be great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Hilary said try it if you don't like it we will pick it up. Can't say fairer than that. It's slightly different to use than a nail gun in that you have a target to hit rather than just vsng and it's done. Took me a couple of goes to get used to where the staples are going but once you get your eye in look out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 I tried the st400i for a few days and loved it!! I usually staple up with a st400 and compressor on the front of the quad, one person driving and one stapling , with the st400i you can go at the same speed if not faster with one man, no extra labour cost, no petrol, no compressor to lug in and out of the truck and no need for the quad when stapling. staples and Gas sound expensive but there is a saving there!!! It's just a shame you can't use the cheap nail gun gas.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCCM Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 I used it too, doing 3000m of 3 strand of HT barb, it is good, it is a little heavy but to be able to grab the box out of the landrover and be firing staples within seconds of opening it and not lugging around a compressor in and out of the workshop/vehicle/ on and off the atv/postdriver has its real benefits. Also on awkard runs where it may be easier to get to with a pouch full of staples and the gun compared to the st400 and compressor is a real bonus. Labour is the most expensive thing nowadays, £900 is not a lot of man days of labour. If (on a fixed price job) over a year your finishing each job short of the allotted time, your profit margin is greater, its kind of a no brainer, even with the marginal extra cost of staples and gas. I have an st400 and Clarke compressor and it is absolutely great. We do a lot of deer fencing for farms and parks, where we do 8 staples on 13 strand and that is where it really excels. The st400i is a great tool but just different and as a result are a great companion to the 400 for different situations, or to be used together on big jobs or as a back up if something goes wrong with the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontrowfencing Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Does the st400i take the same staples as the st400, or are they differneT, can you grab staples out the same box for each gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charliehub Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Does the st400i take the same staples as the st400, or are they differneT, can you grab staples out the same box for each gun? They are the same staples Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stockade Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 One of the contractors in NZ allowed us to take some footage of his first go at using the ST400i on high tensile plain wire. https://youtu.be/k5u5gHBfpeU I will be on the Tornado stand at the Royal Welsh Show and also at the Tornado Fencing Competition at the end of the month. I look forward to meeting anyone travelling to these events and answering any questions you may have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Good to have you here, I would like to give some feedback for you(stockade) . A few months back I tried emailing the contact from your website, can't remember who, but if you like I can look through my email history. I tried a few times but it got returned. I got my query sorted by tornado. I know stockade tools are good I have the staplemate and have seen the videos, but trying to find out more about them isn't easy, you will find we have discussed stockade in a few threads and have either got answers from other users or ended up none the wiser. It would be good to have access to more information and a fuller idea of what stock-ade has to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooresft Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 How about the gas cartridges? Are they the same as the im350? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted July 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 How about the gas cartridges? Are they the same as the im350? Hi Mooresft the ST400i takes a different type of fuel cell. The Staples for the ST400i come in a box of 1,000 and have 2 fuel cells included within the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajmoore1 Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 The fact Hi Mooresft the ST400i takes a different type of fuel cell. The Staples for the ST400i come in a box of 1,000 and have 2 fuel cells included within the box. Is it the same gas as the im360 lithium ion and are the batteries the same. Looks similar. Are you going to the Royal Welsh next week, would like to see it for real, maybe do a deal for an ex demo one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted July 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 The fact Is it the same gas as the im360 lithium ion and are the batteries the same. Looks similar. Are you going to the Royal Welsh next week, would like to see it for real, maybe do a deal for an ex demo one Yes, we will be at the Royal Welsh next week and will have a demo tool on the stand. We will also have an exciting offer for orders taken during the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST61 Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Purchased my ST400i last year and have been very pleased with it Now it would it may turn out to be a waste of fekin money Went to supplier for staples/ gas yesterday to be informed gas cannot be got for it Anyone else have this problem can the guys at Tornado shed some light on whats going on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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