West Fork Fence

Buy a Stockade and only cry once.  If you want to give my wife a call, she'll fix you up with a stapler and the t post clips you were after.  844-48-FENCE

51 minutes ago, oregonfarmfencer said:

I know this past spring we paid $22 for 2 7/8" x 10' raw oil pipe. Hard to justify when we can get a 4-5" x 8' wood post for under $7. Don't think people, or their pocketbooks, would go for it around here. But using galvanized pipe would definitely set a guy above and beyond the competition. Interesting to see the different solutions people have found in different parts of the country. 

There is more to it than that.  Shoot me a text, and I'll tell you what I know.  Eight One Two 798 forty six 0 four.  Not an appropriate conversation for the entire interwebs to find.  

Also, this is way cheaper than you think. 

http://protechmachinery.co.uk/html/products/P30-contractor.html

1 hour ago, oregonfarmfencer said:

How's the cost comparison? 

It depends.  Cheaper than creosote for us, but that’s just the front end. 100 years divided by 25 years equals a whole lot cheaper than anything you can buy. Nailing down efficient availability was the toughest part for us, but we figured it out.  I’ll ask my guys about the left coast, and where you should look.  Just loaded another pic for you. Took over a year to square that deal. You can’t judge book by the cover. Test results are a must these days. 

43 minutes ago, oregonfarmfencer said:

Thanks that's interesting. They are supposed to be 25 year posts. CCA lodgepole pine, ACQ Doug fir, and Penta Doug Fir are the only posts readily available here. All 3 that are sold locally here in our experience are poorly treated. Virtually zero penetration of the treat! The pines would last 5 years give or take a few. Not good for business to say the least. 

We import these from Canada, they are not AWPA certified, but do meet Canadian ministry of agriculture and BC highway construction standards. There are several that were installed around here in the mid to late 90s as part of VSP trellis systems, still standing strong. In recent years trellis installation has gravitated towards all steel. 

We've experimented a lot with posts. We had one customer specifically request ACQ Doug Fir, within two years the fence had experienced approximately 50% post failure. 

And of course all our steel posts are still standing.

 

SS40 Class III.  Problems are over, and easier to install. 

I added some pictures for you. At first glance, I would have thought that to be a pretty bad post. All wood is not created equal, and it appears that you have a well treated post, assuming the retention rate is up to snuff, and there really is that much heartwood in there. If that were southern yellow pine, it’d be a five year post at best. 

The pic with the last paragraph outlined in red should be of particular interest. You are entitled to test results. 

What kind of wood is that?  4" diameter, I'm assuming?   Nice set of pictures you uploaded, by the way. 

I have no doubts that once setup in the field there is little to beat speed and ease of operation of a tracked machine.

 

But that's not everything, a tractor has some advantages, no unloading for one, tractor can tow a trailer of materials and knocker too so only one setup to take to the job- plus if you have a loader tractor you have something to clear fencelines and load fencing stakes.

A track machine is a one trick pony and knocking stakes in may only account for 30% -50% of a jobs time. So you have a huge investment tied up just for that. Having operated both I'd also say that a tractor can be better in some terrains, it's large wheels can adjust better to undulating terrain.

 

Similarly a digger with the RIGHT knocker, a clearing grab, buckets, auger, wire unrolling capabilities is going to be far more versatile- and you will get a lot of ancillary work ditching, groundworks etc which personally I welcombe as I can sit in a heated can with the radio on on a pouring wet day! I also agree with other- the best digger knockers are homemade by those who know what they want from the machine. The P10 is fairly dreadful- the geometry is all set up wrong for a small digger and it's unstable and makes for untidy fencing.

 

If however you do mega stretches of stock fencing- plan on towing with the tractor and fence pretty much 100% of the time a tracked knocker may be the best option for you.

Good points raised here.  The majority of our workload is too far from home to consider driving a tractor, and most of the jobs we take are big enough to justify moving equipment.  We take the tracked knocker and a tracked skid steer to most every job.  It takes two trips now, but I'm hoping to get a smaller driver set up to eliminate one trip.  We usually are able to schedule our fence jobs on a route so as not to waste miles.  Also, I usually have a crew, so they can be clearing, scattering stakes, or stringing net while I'm driving posts, where a tractor mounted knocker would take away that capability.   What works for us, wouldn't always be the best fit for someone else.  We also can't legally exceed 25MPH in a tractor.....

In and out of the tractor is better than hand digging, but not by much.  I wouldn't go back to a tractor after running a track machine.  The diffrence in productivity is quite amazing.

That's impressive metreage west fork. At that rate I'd only be doing 2 weeks fencing a year!!!

Like Matt I like the tracked knocker idea. It's the full time pro setup. Yes I did one day knocking posts in and getting in and out the tractor. I only do knocking continuously when I have someone else. I hang wire and do braces on my own or gates etc.

Goaty, I like to buy high, sell low, and make it up on volume.   

I'm sure that it's tough to justify a tracked knocker for some.  It is a big expense, and I suppose they can be a bit of a one trick pony, but so am I.  We don't build anything but farm fence, so my driver gets a workout.  Friday, I drove 1,300 meters of posts.....5-6"x8' intermediates and about 30 8'x10' strainers, and still had time to build braces and stretch some net.  I can load nearly 60 5-6" posts on my machine, and that's pretty handy.  Yesterday, for example, I loaded the posts I needed for a 150 meter post and rail job.  I drove all the posts so the guys can hang boards first thing Monday, and then moved the driver on up the road to the next job.  (Next to a church, so I can't start until noon today)   Tepappa has a pretty good system for working alone and keeping all the equipment (loader tractor, knocker, trailer)  he needs on the job. 

I'm not a post knocker salesman, so it makes me no difference, but I've never heard anyone with a tracked knocker wish to go back to using a tractor mounted knocker. Ever.  It'd be like wishing for Tornado to stop making 500 meter rolls, and only make 50 meter rolls. lol

​And Matt, in a few years, climbing in and out of a tractor 200 times a day won't be as much fun! 

I'd say my Solotrak 200R is more versatile (fitted with a blade, netting dispenser, which, compressor) compared to the Bryce HD180 and it was definitely a lot more expensive by the time it was fully kitted out

 

I've always wanted to try a Solotrack......

I'd buy a vector over the Bryce, I couldn't deal with anyone that said about not being a professional contractor.

That's exactly why I have a Vector.

Perfectly put Mike, my sentiments exactly. We started with an international 956xl with a well used king hitter, sold both for the first tracked machine in 08 (first in the county) and now on our third and every other contractor has followed suit. Worst aspect is moving it for smaller jobs but all is forgiven as soon as I've got it off and started driving the first post!

I couldn't agree more with you both!

I'll elaborate on my answer a little.  My first three rigs were center mast, H beam, three point mounted drivers.  (Side slide, slew, and any other practical ideas are pretty well unavailable here)  My fourth rig was a center mast H beam on a skid steer on tires.  Ohhh man.....I thought I was in heaven.  My next rig was the same driver on a rubber track skid steer.  I still have it, and even use it once in a while, although it's hard to go back to that way of life.   It is just nearly impossible to keep any help, and I was fairly well sick of climbing in and out of the skid steer 400 times a day, so I started exploring the internet every night until I hatched my plan to mate a Vector Model 4 to a Yanmar C50R.  It's big and heavy, but it has served me well and has never been arrested the night before a big job, or been too hungover to show up on time.  I'm taking a look at a Protech Evo in a couple weeks, and hopefully it will fit in my luggage for the trip home!  It wouldn't be practical for us to drive a tractor on the road to every job site,  so I'd just assume haul a tracked driver that I can operate alone as to any other type of rig.   Being able to work alone faster than I ever could with two of us has been the best benefit for me.  80 posts/hour is not uncommon in good conditions, so the speed makes up for the expense in no time.  If you're going to be a bear, be a Grizzly bear.

Edit:  The only downside are sharp rocks and small stumps left by land owners without track machines.......Derailed tracks can be a headache, but it's usually not an issue until the tracks are worn out.

IMHO, there are no cons.  I'm sure they aren't for everyone, but my productivity easily doubled when I switched to a tracked driver.