PhilipP Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 Hi all, I am looking for some advice on erecting stockproof fencing as part of an experiment on the impacts of grazing on saltmarsh. I am hoping to set up a series of (maybe 20) fenced exclosures each just 5 m x 5 m, possibly 4 m x 4 m. I have four potential sites, one with cattle, two with cattle and rabbits, one with sheep and rabbits. I have done stock fencing before with strainers, stakes, square mesh and a line of barb, but a strainer at the corner of each plot would be a lot of work. So I am wondering if I could use post and rail, possibly with four rails and dug-in wire mesh on the inside, topped by a line of barb. Would this be robust enough not to be flattened by cattle? Also what are the dangers of the stock damaging the rabbit mesh? I think, creosoted timber would be needed given the fact that the site would be periodically under the tide. Many thanks Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
premnayloon Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 ill guarantee now the cattle will rub up against as a scratching tool! plus when they run out of grazing thats when the dangers of them wrecking it will occur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontrowfencing Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I would possibly look into using electric fencing. Depending on how long you want it to be in place you could use temporary or even a semi permanent option? Would be the cheapest option going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charliehub Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Just wondering .. If your thinking of putting a cow or cows into a 5x5m fenced paddock there will be enough for it to graze for about a hour then it will be looking to jump into the next paddock for its next bit of grub..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipP Posted January 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Just to clarify folks, the stock will be on the outside of the exclosures, not the inside. The idea is to monitor the changes in the vegetation inside the fences when grazing is removed from these small patches. @frontrowfencing. The fences would need to be in place for at least three years. The locations would be fairly remote from any farm and the exclosures fairly spaced out so not sure how we would get the electric fencing to work. There is also the problem with the tide coming in this far a few times each year. I understand that it is an unusual idea, but I appreciate all your comments! The Dutch and the Germans have got this to work in the past, so it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 That's much clearer. To accurately monitor the inside you will need to use net to reduce trespassing tongues and heads to the minimum. The only saving I can think of is if you put just one corner brace in at 45 degrees from each fence line rather than the standard 2 (one on each fence line) As Charlie says, they will rub the corner posts aggressively, they will need reinforcement. We fence in a large parkland with mature trees, it has small plantations fenced off. We tend to repair these every springtime. Ugly as it sounds a shipping container with top and bottom cut out and cut in sections height wise would be the sort of thing that would do the job. Then just move it on. Maybe have corner posts with a height deterrent wire on Scaffolding also could be utilised as the framework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipP Posted January 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Thanks Goaty. With regards to the corner braces, are you suggesting this with strainers and netting?Or post and rail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charliehub Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 That make a lot more sense ..! Perhaps a simpler option would be temporary site fencing but not the very light type there are heavier types available they come in 3.5m x 2 m high panels if you were to fix them in a square with the joining clamps and push the legs into the ground instead of using the feet that they use on building sites it would be a pity firm option and if this was not strong enough to you could use steel poles on the corners to Stop them being lifted the mesh size would be to small for cattle to bother them much as long as they have plenty of grass elsewhere to go at. Ring clipping rabbit net to the bottom of the panels would solve the rabbit problem. Take a look at this company that manufactures them Www.blokmesh.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWJONES fencing Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Could you not just but 3 or 4 strands of barb up and tighten with gripples, along with the rabbit mesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford6700 Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Post and 4 maybe 5 rails with 8ft posts for strength and rabbit netting . The rails will protect the netting from livestock . The other option is metal gabeons fixing down they come in different sizes and make a cage . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipP Posted January 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 @DWJONES fencing. Possibly yes but if I go the wire route, I am wondering what size of corner posts I would need to be cattle resistant. Do I really need full size strainers with struts or can I get away with smaller diameter? @Ford6700. This is what I was thinking. Possibly with a line of barb along the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Yes I would even brace post and rail against cattle. I imagine it can be sort on site. We braced some p&r near a gate which is used to move the cattle to another field. Really it boils down to how serious this experiment is and the allowable expense. Cattle always go daft upon release in spring and vandalise, if you can keep them elsewhere for the first 2-3 weeks they should be less destructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tepapa Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Thinking off the barrier idea, a 16' mesh gate is 4m (not sure if you can get longer?) Four 6-7"x 8' strainers, one in each corner. Gate sat on the ground and some kind of band or strap to hold gates to the strainer or hung if necessary. They would be quick/ easy to install and so any extra cost in materials should be saved in labour. With materials on site knocking in 4 strainers on marsh should be quick. The mesh should be stock proof lower down. Gates usually bend when stock try and jump them so should be up to some scratching. Could possibly reinforce the middle with an extra 5" x 8' strainer and a strand of barb if necessary to stop rubbing. EDIT: reading your post again, ur trying to get away from digging big strainers, which makes a rigid structure more necessary, so I would go down the barrier or gate route with 4/5/6" strainers knocked in the corners (the biggest u can by hand in the ground and 7' long) Would be around 110cm high and if all strapped tightly should hold up to a little flood water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tepapa Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 In regard to cattle, yes you would need full size straining posts on corners to try and hold it all together. The type of ground is going against you and getting strainers to hold and keep net tight on marsh is hard enough without trying to cut corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontrowfencing Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Just to clarify folks, the stock will be on the outside of the exclosures, not the inside. The idea is to monitor the changes in the vegetation inside the fences when grazing is removed from these small patches. @frontrowfencing. The fences would need to be in place for at least three years. The locations would be fairly remote from any farm and the exclosures fairly spaced out so not sure how we would get the electric fencing to work. There is also the problem with the tide coming in this far a few times each year. I understand that it is an unusual idea, but I appreciate all your comments! The Dutch and the Germans have got this to work in the past, so it can be done. Philip, just a thought, still not given up on electric idea. Cheap Fence energiser £50.00, battery suitable for power £50.00 roll of wire for electric. Not much for quite a lot of wire. Plastic posts maybe about £1.50 each, no more than ten per site require. Solar power panel to keep battery topped up £30.00 You are looking at maybe £150.00 per site. Then put in one longer post to hang the energiser, solar panel and battery off, to keep them off the ground for high tides. Installation cost would be minimal. One man could carry enough for each plot to site, half hour to set up. At the end of experiment, there is some sellable batteries, energisers, posts and solar chargers, maybe not worth a lot, but would get some back. No holes to fill in. We recently did some fences round archaeological trenches, at the end of it, was only in 4 weeks when we took it down, there were big holes in the field that needed filling to prevent cattle breaking legs, and it took a fair while to get post out and take down wire etc. Best of luck with it, you have come to the right place as you will get lots of ideas here, most of them good. I am full of bad ideas unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbell Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Iv done something along these lines if you are going 4x4 m then 2x 16' rails on top of wire net, 7' post every 4' make the fence high enough that they can't reach over the top electric fence might not work if its tidal and the energiser comes into contact with salt water final piece of advise, if your taking a tractor out onto the salt marsh then hire one in, 2 weeks on a salt marsh made my tractor and quad into rust buckets with bearing probs and paint blistering etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
premnayloon Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 That make a lot more sense ..! Perhaps a simpler option would be temporary site fencing but not the very light type there are heavier types available they come in 3.5m x 2 m high panels if you were to fix them in a square with the joining clamps and push the legs into the ground instead of using the feet that they use on building sites it would be a pity firm option and if this was not strong enough to you could use steel poles on the corners to Stop them being lifted the mesh size would be to small for cattle to bother them much as long as they have plenty of grass elsewhere to go at. Ring clipping rabbit net to the bottom of the panels would solve the rabbit problem. Take a look at this company that manufactures them Www.blokmesh.com Heras, fencing? that'sts what I use for chicken and dog runs, would certainly be just the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWJONES fencing Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Philip, if your after smaller diamater then 6 -7 inch strainers double struted should work with afew strands of barb, probably wont get as much debris getting hung up with the tide either. You could even knock them in with a bigger donger ( 2 man) rather than risk a tractor getting stuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Fencin Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 http://jenquip.co.nz/products/pasture-cage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipP Posted January 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 @Ben Fencin. These are pretty neat, but may just be too small. Once you've removed a buffer due to edge effects the area left to derive data from is not great. I am hoping to record in a 2 m x 2 m central area for comparison with other datasets. +1 for a good idea though, I will give them some consideration. @DWJONES @Robbell. Vehicle access is an issue for sure. Due to the sites being salt-marshes, but also as some are nature reserves, I reckon we will have to do all the work by hand, hence my concerns over large strainers. And yes debris accumulating around the fencing could also be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipP Posted January 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 Thanks to all for your range of suggestions. After considering all the options and the added practicalities of site sensitivity, transporting the materials and doing the workourselves, we have decided to try the following out on the first site and see how we do. 4 m x 4 m plots. 6" x 7' strainers knocked in 3' in each corner with a 6" drivall (or partly dug if the substrate is too tough). 2 struts per strainer using Vicebites to save on the time cutting mortises. 4" x 6' stakes, one at centre of each side, knocked in 2'. 4' sheep netting, topped by a line of barb, rabbit netting on the inside of posts dug in 6'. Gripples used to tighten wire. I will let you know how we get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWJONES fencing Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 Buy yourself a nice big 2 man post knocker ( 9 inch diamater to fit over strainers). Surprising how well they go in, on marsh land they should fly in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbell Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 Thanks to all for your range of suggestions. After considering all the options and the added practicalities of site sensitivity, transporting the materials and doing the workourselves, we have decided to try the following out on the first site and see how we do. 4 m x 4 m plots. 6" x 7' strainers knocked in 3' in each corner with a 6" drivall (or partly dug if the substrate is too tough). 2 struts per strainer using Vicebites to save on the time cutting mortises. 4" x 6' stakes, one at centre of each side, knocked in 2'. 4' sheep netting, topped by a line of barb, rabbit netting on the inside of posts dug in 6'. Gripples used to tighten wire. I will let you know how we get on. we found the knocking to be very hard on the salt marsh. We had the idea of using 10' strainers thinking it would be soft and the amount of pressure from water but in reality it was as hard as hell but let us know and good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipP Posted January 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 @DWJONES. Where can one get a 9 inch post rammer? That would be mighty handy. The biggest I have been able to find is 6 inch. @Robbell. Crikey. I was hoping it would be easy going! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post Driver Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 What about scaffold poles driven into the ground, braced round using more scaffold poles and clamps or key clamp? Then Herras panels or rigid mesh panels fixed with jubilee clips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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