Deer fence with rabbit proofing....

[trentwood]

Hi all,

 

After a bit of advice. We have been asked to do around 150m of rabbit proof deer fencing at a residential property. We won't be able to get our tracked post knocker in so all will have to be done by hand. How would you go about it, bearing in mind rabbit net needs to be dug in rather than folded back. Was thinking about getting something like this to dig the trench for the rabbit net;

 

http://www.hsstoolshop.co.uk/pedestrian-trenchers-for-hire-5605-p.asp

 

But obviously this would need to be done before the posts go int, meaning the posts will then have to be put into/next to the trench, and will have to be extra long? Is there an easier way of doing this? I presume box strainers are a given and always used for deer fencing?

 

Thanks.

[Goaty]

The trencher is impressive, not bad hire rate, never thought of that before.

 

Could you do corners and end posts first then trench. Insert net and lean or fold flat outwards. Put rest of posts in. Maybe stab their places in bottom of trenches. So they don't go off in different directions. Hang net then back fill.

 

I've never done a box strainer yet, some will probably say I'm not a fencer until I've done one! I reckon it's the way to go. I've had the simple brace type fail in less than 4 years due to wood decay. As mentioned elsewhere, invest well in the strainers. The intermediates can be replaced easily if they fail. Strainers take longer to put right than install in the first place.

[trentwood]

So what methods are people using for box strainers? Post sizes for main strainer and secondary strainer? How are you securing the brace between posts?

[MikeW]

I use two 8 or 9ft strainers 6-7" with the smaller of the two for the second post. I mortice the strut in 1ft down from the top of the post as this is inbetween the top two lines of the net, use an 8ft strut and brace with either a G-pac 4 or a couple of strands of 3.15ht grippled tight with crimps aswell as a fail safe.

[Frontrowfencing]

On deer net we generally use a 10 or 12 foot as the main post and a 10 foot as the secondary posts. Usually 8-9 inch diameter. We tie the wire off between the posts. Found gripples a waste of of time, crimps are ok, but tiring of looks nice.

[trentwood]

So people seem to be saying that cripples are not up to the job? What are [people doing as an alternative to morticing the strut? 8mm steel rod maybe? How are you dealing with box strainers when starting up or down a slope?

[premnayloon]

I'd love to help but I've never done a box strainer, always an angle stay.

[West Fork Fence]

We use 3/8" galvanized pins to hold the horizontal strut in place. Typically a 5" pin on one end and a 10" on the other. If you don't like gripples for bracing, a ratchet works just fine. On a slope, we typically make it level of it's going to be seen from the house. If it's on the back 40, square to the ground. H braces are the only thing that holds around here.

[trentwood]

We use 3/8" galvanized pins to hold the horizontal strut in place. Typically a 5" pin on one end and a 10" on the other. If you don't like gripples for bracing, a ratchet works just fine. On a slope, we typically make it level of it's going to be seen from the house. If it's on the back 40, square to the ground. H braces are the only thing that holds around here.

 

What do you mean by back 40? So if on a slope you would brace level or brace with the slope?

[SimonE]

What do you mean by back 40? So if on a slope you would brace level or brace with the slope?

 

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/back_forty 

[trentwood]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/back_forty 

 

You learn something new every day...

[tepapa]

We use 3/8" galvanized pins to hold the horizontal strut in place. Typically a 5" pin on one end and a 10" on the other. If you don't like gripples for bracing, a ratchet works just fine. On a slope, we typically make it level of it's going to be seen from the house. If it's on the back 40, square to the ground. H braces are the only thing that holds around here.

 

Ratchets aren't recommended for brace wire either as they have been known to self destruct under excess load. Gripples aren't strong enough to take the loading of a fence and are a key weak spot in the strainer assembly and subsequent performance of the fence. 

 

I will use crimps to tie off usually or a speed knot if I fancy a change. 

[MikeW]

I have limited confidence in gripples and have had plenty of mediums fail, the g pack 4's however I have never had a problem with to date. There is something to be said for speed and convenience of the g pac's.

[trentwood]

I have limited confidence in gripples and have had plenty of mediums fail, the g pack 4's however I have never had a problem with to date. There is something to be said for speed and convenience of the g pac's.

 

I had not seen the guac kit until you mentioned it. We have 450m of deer fencing going up, first outing for our Protech tracked knocker so will try these out. Also, are people straining to a strainers or pulling up in the middle with double clamps? Advantages/disadvantages of both methods? We plan to use Gripple T clips for tying off the wire on the strainers, any advice?

[MikeW]

I always pull to the middle with boundary strainers, you get a more even pull. T clips are fine, especially with ht horse netting knotting strainers all the time is quite time consuming and hard on the fingers! Also eliminates the risk of snapping a wire on the knot.

I went to a stock fence today that I installed 2 years ago with r-8-80-15 and two strands of 2.5ht as a big tree had fallen across two sections squashing it right to the floor. Net and plain wire joined with gripples and box struts with g packs. I cut the tree off, straightened the net a bit and tweeked the gripples and there fence was tight as a drum. None of the gripples failed and if they weren't there then repairing the fence would have been a much bigger job and for me this a big plus.

[Frontrowfencing]

Think gripples could be debated on a whole separate post. I have used them in the past on jobs, but I have had too many problems,, Gripple were meant to get back to me and never did. I do still carry some, but they are emergency use only now really. Last tree we had down on a fencers cut the tree out and the wire went back straight up and tight, luckily we didn't need to re tension it. I think if we had, I would probably have just put two clamps,on, taken the stain and chucked a line of crimps in, but I am open to suggestions.

Regarding tieing off horse net, we have tired t Tripp,Es in past but again, I saw a picture from I think it was Damien and he has tied of plain 2.5mm line wire and crimped the horse wire to it. I will now be using this method a lot, although we do tie it off occasionally. Saw some nice timing of the other day on horse wire from Gary. At least he said it was his, but I think maybe Hilary did it.

[RCCM]

All my deer stuff is done in the same way, 7-8" or 200mm MR (depending on supplier) x 3.6m long strainers with a 100mm machine round pole in between, morticed into the strainers using a carving saw to create a square mortice and tenon on the pole.   See video on facebook.

 

I use 2.5mm ht and go twice round the box using staples to hold the wire in place and then strain and crimp the joint and do several wraps after with each tail to finish it off and provide some extra back up should it ever slip, but crimps don't!

 

I have never had this setup fail or move.

 

I have seen plenty of gripples fail for one reason or another.  They have their place but not in deer fencing.  Also don't waste money on GPak's for anything, just cut lengths of 2.5mm ht instead,  I have snapped quite a few gpak cables especially when I was doing 2000mm of the first batch of deer clipex two years ago.

[West Fork Fence]

I suppose there are likely differences in the way we all do things, and I look forward to trying all of the methods mentioned above.  We build all of our H braces at least 10' wide.  It's not uncommon to have a 12' horizontal strut, or to build a double H on a long stretch, or even a triple H on long stretches of deer fence.  An 8' wide brace with an 8' strainer would result in a popped strainer every time with our soil and weather conditions.  We also set our strut lower relative to the fence height than most that use H braces.  The flatter the brace wire, the stronger it is relative to the pre load that you put on it with whatever tensioning method you prefer.  We set our strut at about 75% of the fence height.  If you don't overload the brace wire from the get go, then there will be less chance of a failure when the fence wire is stretched.  I look forward to visiting the UK some day to get a few lessons, and to get a better grasp of the different conditions that we all deal with.  Here, we have temperatures ranging from 115*F on the high end to -30*F on the cold side.  Frost heave is a big concern, so even our line posts need to be at least 3' in the ground.  We generally put 5-6' of a strainer or brace post in the ground.  I used to crimp or hand knot brace wire, but ratchets and gripples have served us well and made it easier for a hired man to help me.   I'm glad you guys had to Google "back 40"......It makes me feel better about all the terms I've had to Google since I joined the forum! To answer Trentwood's question about a strainers and brace being level or square to the ground, it seems to me that square to the ground should be stronger.....Level with the world just looks better from the road to most.   It should be noted that I'm wrong more than I'm right, so don't take anything I say as the gospel.  I wasn't the smartest kid in the 6th grade, but I was the only one old enough to vote.

[RCCM]

The box length really always needs to be as close to twice the height of the fence, hence why for deer fencing we use 12' or in metric 3.6m poles

[trentwood]

Thanks for all the advice guys, this is a great forum. Have been looking for a specialised forum like this for ages....