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Mugs are well thought of but notoriously expensive. To buy and maintain.

You really need to be running the thing usefully everyday not just as a pickup.

Gareth Bradbury used to have them probably still does. Not looked at his website for a long time.

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I need to start shipping you guys some trucks! There are a few Mogs and the American 5 tons around here, but nobody uses them for work....only to play in the mud. I've got an old 3500 Dodge with a B series Cummins that makes about 600 hp and 1200 lb ft of torque while getting nearly 30mpg. Sounds like just what you need!

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It's our rules and regs that hinder the uptake of such vehicles.

Taxation class.

Rebated fuel or not.

Weights and dimensions

Type of driving licence.

Commercial or private use. If commercial. Is CPC required? Tachograph? If so every five years. Five days have to be spent in the classroom to keep CPC card active. No card and caught big fines.

Get seen in a working rig your a magnet for the authorities. Interpretation of the law is a grey area. Depends how power mad or easygoing the authorities agent is and now DSA is self funding by the fines and fees more than it was before?

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As long as its registered as an agricultural or forestry machine you can run in it on rebated fuel. Just when you start hauling stuff about that's when VOSA et Al get the hump. As SteveW said, a thread on here said about a problem a fellow fencer had with it. They're good if you're hauling a lot of timber about and need to get from one job to the other quick. However, wouldn't recommend them as a pickup alternative.

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Right Steve, so to clear my head in this area. I can use a agricultural vehicle (tax class) with white diesel and DSA/VOSA will be ok with that?

I understand you can't mix fuel classes. But a bit of a pain to do farm work. Then drain tank, put DERV in and go contracting.

It shows how silly the fuel classes are. The alternative in my case would be to run two tractors. Like I've got £20,000+ waiting to spend on another tractor. It's time they took the dye out and charged everybody the same. Only farming gets rebated fuel use, only farming gets grants, subsidies wholesale.

 

Did the conversation work out expensive Steve?

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Well lucky for me I undertake agricultural work, so come under the agri contractor label. I wouldn't believe a thing the chap at vosa say's as most of them don't have a flipping clue the majority the time. Trust me I know!!

 

I found this a while back and I have this printed off and in the cab of the tractor. It was published by NFU, NAAC et Al and endorsed by HMRC and DVLA... and with a quick google is still endorsed and quoted on the GOV website.

 

If you scroll down to bullet point number 10 it states about contractors using red diesel. I was always told, if you're carrying goods e.g fence posts to a farm as long as you're undertaking the fencing work you haven't a problem and is backed up by this; 

 

http://timbertransportforum.org.uk/attachments/article/125/Confor%20Publications%202008%20Memorandum%20of%20Agreement%20in%20Respect%20of%20the%20Use%20of%20Agricultural%20Vehicles%20on%20Road%20FAQs.pdf

 

 

10. I am a contractor. Can I use a tractor licensed as an agricultural machine and running on red diesel to deliver agricultural inputs (feed, fertilizer, fence posts, etc) to a farm?

No, not unless you are being employed by the farmer to carry out an operation requiring those inputs, e.g. feeding stock, spreading fertilizer, repairing fences.

 

 

 

Hope that helps  :)

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Hope you charge plenty you will need it to pay the fines if you get caught !!! You are trading as a professional fencing contractor advertising that you special in agricultural and equestrian fencing. Speak to VOSA !!!!

Don't get me wrong I work within the law, and the law states I can run on red. VOSA are simply enforcers, they don't make the rules. 

Yes I advertise that I specialise in fencing, but doesn't mean I can't do further agricultural contracting work. 

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Not picking an argument with you or anyone else. But the law is not as simple as having a piece of paper in the cab that is why others in previous threads on this forum have been successfully prosecuted.

There are many restrictions on useing subsidised red derv, the type of work you can do and the distance you can travel. Most professional fencing contractors have a web site or Facebook page outlining what they do, ie agricultural and equestrian fencing and the distance they are willing to travel. when they end up in court VOSA will use this as further evidence.

VOSA know all the loopholes and are closing them. They are now self funding and have teeth and not afraid to us them.

A reputable timber company delivering to our yard was stopped in a roadside check, the drivers though he was ok until they gave him a £300.00 on the spot fine for not having his drivers card with him and the company fined for the age of the ratchet straps on the load.

Everyone pushes the boundaries at some stage but don't be complacent and get caught!!!!

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Not picking an argument with you or anyone else. But the law is not as simple as having a piece of paper in the cab that is why others in previous threads on this forum have been successfully prosecuted.

There are many restrictions on useing subsidised red derv, the type of work you can do and the distance you can travel. Most professional fencing contractors have a web site or Facebook page outlining what they do, ie agricultural and equestrian fencing and the distance they are willing to travel. when they end up in court VOSA will use this as further evidence.

VOSA know all the loopholes and are closing them. They are now self funding and have teeth and not afraid to us them.

A reputable timber company delivering to our yard was stopped in a roadside check, the drivers though he was ok until they gave him a £300.00 on the spot fine for not having his drivers card with him and the company fined for the age of the ratchet straps on the load.

Everyone pushes the boundaries at some stage but don't be complacent and get caught!!!!

 

Vice Versa, I am not looking for an argument ether. I know it's not just simply having a piece of paper in the cab but it's something to show that you know what you know about the law as published by those setting the rules. Then if they have a problem with it, let them take it up with the authorities above.

I tend to transport all my materials with the pickup and trailer or if larger loads I have it delivered straight to site anyway, then all my tractor is doing is driving to the job with the post driver and tools. Yes they can have a look at my facebook page all they like, but I clearly say as well that I also undertake agricultural work and therefore I am an agricultural contractor. 

 

No offence the company in mind, but if you are a haulier (as my dad is as well) you should be carrying your drivers cards etc with you. The ratchet straps fine is a bit petty in my opinion, it's not the drivers fault the company may not have got round to renewing them. 

 

Please read a post on this forum 7/5/15 made by Jeremy Curling entitled Red Derv

HMRC Red Diesel reply July 2008 doc

Next to last paragraph

Yes but it still refers to being able to carry fencing materials on red diesel as long as you're carrying out the work. Yes Equestrian fencing is a bit different, but as mentioned above I carry all my materials on the pick up or get them delivered.

 

I mean no offence Steve, just stating what I have been lead to believe and told to do by HMRC, DVLA et Al. I know you run a purely fencing business and I can see where you're coming from over the commercial aspect. Are you going to Nantwich Show, might see you there?  

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How can ratchets be too old. I've had some new ones on stock for a few years, are they redundant before I use them.

Unfortunately authoritarian jobs tend to attract petty power mad people! Not always, I have dealt with some excellent police officers.

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Keep persevering west fork I didn't pass mine 3rd time either. I drove better than most of my fellow learners who past on the earlier attempts. Glad I did mine years ago. I kick out against pathetic regulation. I was only thinking yesterday when I drove a tipper truck 16 years ago and had to go in the tipper body I used to exit with a flip over gate vault, I found it the quickest, safest way. Can't imagine turning up and doing it on a site now without a jobsworth coming over.

A couple of years ago I took a concrete mixer on to a huge industrial site. No one knew who wanted the concrete so I went on foot to find out. Waiting for me on return was the non real world health and safety chap, immaculate, his hi vis vest was probably ironed. He was not impressed I was wearing shorts. Brief interview which he reckoned he was going to follow up with my company. He asked what was the name of the company I just raised both arms up above my head to point at the spinning barrel with the company name written in huge lettering.

Those of us that want to get on can't because of the clueless that station themselves above get in the way.

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