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Fence design


Kjg26
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We just put down earnest money on a 50 acre tract in NE Georgia.  We can't wait to start fixing it up.  Step one will be to secure the driveway.  I know it could be as simple as running a straight line of fence and gate across the front of the property but I prefer the looks of an offset gate.  I have attached an image as to my thoughts and design of it.  I have never done anything besides mending some basic 3 or 4 board fencing so I'm open to any and all ideas/suggestions.


What size corner posts?

What size brace posts? 

What size top rail (between corner/brace posts)? 

How far apart should these posts be? 

How deep? 

Concreted in?

On the lines of fence how far apart should I space t-posts? 

How far apart do I need wooden posts?

 

I have also attached an aerial of the front 20 acres.  There are portions already fenced in ( southern and western portions of the property have old barb wire fencing. 

Aerial Shot KmAB4Hb.jpg

Fencing design idea UTbGFkb.png

 

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My minimum would be 23/8 pipe braces with tpost every 12 foot and pipe stiffener post every 96 foot. 4- 6 inch pipe on the gate post. 7 barb for cattle or horses. 111248 for sheep or goats. 

On the entry make sure to get the outside plenty wide. I like to do a funnel. Depth needs to be the length of your vehicle and longest trailer plus a good ten feet. If you're gate has to swing out you need to add that as well. You want to be able to pull in and open the gate without your trailer sticking out in the road. I don't use wood so can't help you there........nice looking place

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I'll go through and answer yours questions one by one. These suggestions would be what we would typically do.  We use cca pressure treated wood posts and 1.25 steel t-posts, no pipe here. 

 

What size corner posts?  6" x 8'

What size brace posts? 4" x 8'

What size top rail (between corner/brace posts)?  4"x10' (The bigger/longer the brace the better)

How far apart should these posts be?  Not sure if your asking about the brace posts or line posts? On brace posts since we have a 10' rail the posts are 10' apart. For line posts we typically put our posts on 12' centers, with high tensile wire you could put them a bit farther apart if you wanted.

How deep? 3' for an 8' post, so 5' above ground. 

Concreted in?  I wouldn't recommend concrete, it can trap moisture around the post and lead to accelerated rot. Pounding is best, if you can't pound auger and tamp with gravel.  

On the lines of fence how far apart should I space t-posts?  Our posts are normally on 12' centers, we typically do a 3 tposts to 1 wood post pattern. So we have 3 tposts then a wood post, 3 t's then a wood, etc.. Some people choose 2 tposts to a wood or 4 t posts to a wood. Wood posts add strength to the fence, all t posts really do is hold the wire up.  

How far apart do I need wooden posts?  If I was building it for my own place I would put the wood posts on 48' centers. The more wood posts the stronger your fence is. 

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Welcome to the forum Kjg26.   

A few things to consider would be the type of livestock, how much pressure, and what kind of fence?   Of course, Tornado Wire is superior to anything else available, but you would still have several options.  Barbed, hinge joint, fixed knot, square knot, etc?  

A properly stretched HT fixed knot fence, like Tornado Titan, needs a bigger strainer(corner).  We use a minimum 7-8"x10'.  We use a 6-7"x8' for a brace post, and a 4-5"x10' or 12' for the strut (top rail).  If you can't source longer timber, I would recommend a double H brace.   Of course, we use pipe on occasion, but it isn't always the right answer.......and wouldn't be in NE GA in my opinion.  You are in the land of Southern Yellow Pine, and there are some very good treaters in your area, so with your high moisture climate, I would avoid pipe unless you go with all galvanized, and that will probably be cost prohibitive in your area.   Not all conditions are suitable for steel, just as all conditions are not suitable for timber posts. 

I wouldn't say that there is never a reason to have tight post spacing, but I'd skip the T posts and use 5" line posts spaced somewhere between 16 and 24 feet, if this will be a fence that has average stock pressure.  We typically use a 1 rod (16.5') spacing when topping with a barbed wire, and further if it'll be topped with a plain hot wire.  Of course, this is up to the customer and their budget in the end.  24' spacing with 842-12 Titan is a better fence than 12' spacing and 5 strands of barb, IMHO, and is a better fence for the same money all day long. 

As far as line post length, I'm assuming that frost heave won't be an issue for you, so I'd bet the standard in your area to be 7 or 7.5'.  We use 8' line posts here, but the frost heave will spit out anything shorter.  Of course, these post length recommendations would be for a fence that ends up 55-57" or so tall. (48" net, off the ground a boot toe, wire over top, with a couple inches of post to spare)

If there is any way to drive your posts, that'll be better than digging them in.  One way or the other, you won't need concrete around a timber post if you tamp it in good.  (Assuming you have the typical NE GA soil?)  I would use a foot and breast plate on the strainers if I was digging them in.  

You will find that opinions vary quite widely when it comes to fencing.  Most everyone on this forum will have some good advice for you, but what works in one part of the world doesn't always work in other parts.  The most valuable information I've gathered in my travels would be the thousands of ways to build braces.  Most of those ways are not suitable for modern HT net wire, but most fence isn't stretched tight enough to make a difference.  The real efficiency of a fence wire like Titan is in it's ability to accommodate increased line post spacing without sacrificing strength.  The world over, you will find barbed and plain wire fences with tight post spacing and stays tied in to boot.  A HT net with a solid vertical stay is essentially a better, more efficient version.  To realize the savings, it begins with bracing suitable to properly stretch wire from. 

As far as your entry goes, we like to do what Fence described with the funnel.  If you move your corners away from your driveway a little so that you have a bit of an angle running up to your gates, you will have an easier time getting in with a trailer.  I would do away with the two little braces either side of your gate, and use an overhead for bracing (mainly because they look nice.......functional....good place to hang a sign)  or use a slam latch to support the end of the gate.  If you set a 10' strainer, you won't have any trouble with a sagging gate or post.  A 16' opening, once you are 50'+ from the road, is more than sufficient.   Of course, a dab of 4 plank on a radius either side of the drive looks pretty nice, as well. 

Good luck with your project.....I know how exciting it can be to get fired up on a new place!

 

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10 minutes ago, West Fork Fence said:

If you set a 10' strainer, you won't have any trouble with a sagging gate or post. 

 

   Of course, a dab of 4 plank on a radius either side of the drive looks pretty nice, as well. 

 

Can you explain this bit to me a bit more. 

 

 

I understand the funnel now. thank you.  Also like the idea of bracing overhead.  What size lumbar are we talking about for that.  And how the heck do i get it up there?

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57 minutes ago, Kjg26 said:

Can you explain this bit to me a bit more. 

 

 

I understand the funnel now. thank you.  Also like the idea of bracing overhead.  What size lumbar are we talking about for that.  And how the heck do i get it up there?

 

This is how we build a timber box, or H brace, and it should give you an idea of the size of strainer we prefer.  Of course, 2-3/8" schedule 80 is just fine in the rock around here, but believe it or not, this clay turns to mush in February and March.  When using pipe in sloppy ground like that, we use the biggest we can get.  With large strainers/gate posts, and the latch end supported by a two way slam latch, no extra bracing will be needed.  Of course, an overhead solves it too.    

I have added some pictures to my gallery to show some overhead entrances, as well as a bit of 4 plank on a radius at an entrance.  We use a crane now, and if you scroll down toward the end of that album, you will see it in use.  For wood overheads, we use new utility poles.  For welded overheads, it is up to the customer, but usually the bigger the better.  We shoot the bottom of the hole with a laser level and make our saddle cuts on the ground to make assembly easier.  

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You've gotten some good advice do with it what you will.

In most cases even galvanized pipe can be had cheaper than properly treated wood. Let's think about..steel is ok for wire, staples and brace cables and gates but not post???? okey-dokey

Tpost are cheap, and easy to put in and when properly clipped hold better than staples.  it's cheaper and structurally superior to put a tpost in every 8 than a wood every 24. 

I'm not trying to be disagreeable. No one learns a thing where everyone agrees. Just saying I've done it both ways.

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6 minutes ago, Fence said:

You've gotten some good advice do with it what you will.

In most cases even galvanized pipe can be had cheaper than properly treated wood. Let's think about..steel is ok for wire, staples and brace cables and gates but not post???? okey-dokey

Tpost are cheap, and easy to put in and when properly clipped hold better than staples.  it's cheaper and structurally superior to put a tpost in every 8 than a wood every 24. 

I'm not trying to be disagreeable. No one learns a thing where everyone agrees. Just saying I've done it both ways.

I think ill wood brace every third post. Also...for long runs of fence how often  should i do brace posts (H braces)?

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8 minutes ago, oregonfarmfencer said:

We like to put an "x'd" H brace every 1000ft or so in long runs. Gives a place to pull to if needed. 

 

So a H brace with tension wire going both directions?  Same size posts as corners or the other fence posts?

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I'll post more pics as required but it's a real pain here. One is a header being

Installed one is the job I'm on today. I just thought it was interesting to compare the condition of the wood post to the steel in the pic. 

The UN galvanized staple still like new

 

 

 

KIMG1563_zps0k7ucbny.jpg

KIMG2207_zpshszhryfv.jpg

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On 1/8/2018 at 09:40, West Fork Fence said:

Welcome to the forum Kjg26.   

A few things to consider would be the type of livestock, how much pressure, and what kind of fence?   Of course, Tornado Wire is superior to anything else available, but you would still have several options.  Barbed, hinge joint, fixed knot, square knot, etc?  

A properly stretched HT fixed knot fence, like Tornado Titan, needs a bigger strainer(corner).  We use a minimum 7-8"x10'.  We use a 6-7"x8' for a brace post, and a 4-5"x10' or 12' for the strut (top rail).  If you can't source longer timber, I would recommend a double H brace.   Of course, we use pipe on occasion, but it isn't always the right answer.......and wouldn't be in NE GA in my opinion.  You are in the land of Southern Yellow Pine, and there are some very good treaters in your area, so with your high moisture climate, I would avoid pipe unless you go with all galvanized, and that will probably be cost prohibitive in your area.   Not all conditions are suitable for steel, just as all conditions are not suitable for timber posts. 

I wouldn't say that there is never a reason to have tight post spacing, but I'd skip the T posts and use 5" line posts spaced somewhere between 16 and 24 feet, if this will be a fence that has average stock pressure.  We typically use a 1 rod (16.5') spacing when topping with a barbed wire, and further if it'll be topped with a plain hot wire.  Of course, this is up to the customer and their budget in the end.  24' spacing with 842-12 Titan is a better fence than 12' spacing and 5 strands of barb, IMHO, and is a better fence for the same money all day long. 

As far as line post length, I'm assuming that frost heave won't be an issue for you, so I'd bet the standard in your area to be 7 or 7.5'.  We use 8' line posts here, but the frost heave will spit out anything shorter.  Of course, these post length recommendations would be for a fence that ends up 55-57" or so tall. (48" net, off the ground a boot toe, wire over top, with a couple inches of post to spare)

If there is any way to drive your posts, that'll be better than digging them in.  One way or the other, you won't need concrete around a timber post if you tamp it in good.  (Assuming you have the typical NE GA soil?)  I would use a foot and breast plate on the strainers if I was digging them in.  

You will find that opinions vary quite widely when it comes to fencing.  Most everyone on this forum will have some good advice for you, but what works in one part of the world doesn't always work in other parts.  The most valuable information I've gathered in my travels would be the thousands of ways to build braces.  Most of those ways are not suitable for modern HT net wire, but most fence isn't stretched tight enough to make a difference.  The real efficiency of a fence wire like Titan is in it's ability to accommodate increased line post spacing without sacrificing strength.  The world over, you will find barbed and plain wire fences with tight post spacing and stays tied in to boot.  A HT net with a solid vertical stay is essentially a better, more efficient version.  To realize the savings, it begins with bracing suitable to properly stretch wire from. 

As far as your entry goes, we like to do what Fence described with the funnel.  If you move your corners away from your driveway a little so that you have a bit of an angle running up to your gates, you will have an easier time getting in with a trailer.  I would do away with the two little braces either side of your gate, and use an overhead for bracing (mainly because they look nice.......functional....good place to hang a sign)  or use a slam latch to support the end of the gate.  If you set a 10' strainer, you won't have any trouble with a sagging gate or post.  A 16' opening, once you are 50'+ from the road, is more than sufficient.   Of course, a dab of 4 plank on a radius either side of the drive looks pretty nice, as well. 

Good luck with your project.....I know how exciting it can be to get fired up on a new place!

 

If i were to do a 4 board design on the entrance funnel how do you brace the gate?  Planning on 16' gate.  Will prob use a wheel on it if that matters 

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10 minutes ago, Kjg26 said:

If i were to do a 4 board design on the entrance funnel how do you brace the gate?  Planning on 16' gate.  Will prob use a wheel on it if that matters 

Use a large(7-8"x10') post to hang the gate from,(Left side in the photo) and a slam latch to support the weight of the gate.(Right side of the photo)

A wheel on a swinging gate is only "necessary" if the gate is poorly installed, IMO.  

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3 minutes ago, West Fork Fence said:

Use a large(7-8"x10') post to hang the gate from,(Left side in the photo) and a slam latch to support the weight of the gate.(Right side of the photo)

A wheel on a swinging gate is only "necessary" if the gate is poorly installed, IMO.  

So large post burried deep with slam latch on latch side. Prefect 

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